Subject: AIList Digest V5 #70

From: vtcs1::in% <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 87 12:00:27 est

AIList Digest            Saturday, 7 Mar 1987      Volume 5 : Issue 70

Today's Topics:
  Policy - Hardware Discussions,
  Query - Eliza, Doctor, Parry, Ractor, etc,
  Applications - Analysis of Unknown Data & AI in Network Protocols

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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 87 12:24 EST
From: Phil Stanhope <[email-masked]>
Subject: Policy - Hardware Discussions

>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 87 10:41:16 -0800
>From: Amnon Meyers <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Hardware vs. AI
>
> I disagree with the notion that hardware problems have 'nothing to do with
> AI'.  While discussions of LISP and PROLOG dialects are interesting, they
> appear to me to have no more relevance to 'AI' than do hardware issues.
> Likewise discussion of the operation and environment provided by LISP
> machines and other workstations.  Likewise philosophical discussions of
> the mind.  My point is that it is not useful to try to define AI too
> narrowly.  There is a theory and practice of AI, and AILIST seems to stress
> the theory.  It would be nice if the 'practice' were taken up somewhere
> as well.
>
> I can certainly understand that the AILIST is already overburdened, and
> that the moderator already does too much work (and a fine job as well).
> THOSE should be the reasons for excluding hardware issues, not arbitration
> about what is and is not relevant to AI.

I concur but would also like to add something that my father, who has never
worked in the fields of computer science or artificial intelligence said
to me awhile ago. He thought that AI should stand for the "Avoidance
of Ignorance," which implies a few things:

        (1) intelligent behaviour, or the emulation thereof, helps one to
            solve problems ...

        (2) learning from mistakes, i.e., not remaining ignorant or naive
            about problems and their solutions ...

        (3) being able to inform other people/machines/users of ones knowledge
            that they've gained through experience ...

If doing the above means learning more about:

        (1) software engineering techniques, algorithms, and languages

        (2) current research and its applications

        (3) hardware that is currently available

        (4) last but not least, the philosophical and epistemological
            underpinnings of intelligence and behaviour,

then these are all valid topics of discussion that, given space and interest,
should be posted on this list.

        Philip Stanhope
        Palladian Software, Inc.
        Cambridge, MA. 02142

  [Agreed, but it is that "given space and interest" that is the
  troublesome part.  My own orientation is towards algorithms and
  techniques.  Software (e.g., expert system shells) is also
  discussed in AIList since it is so closely tied to techniques.
  The coupling to hardware is much looser, and there are already
  several lists relating to workstations and particular hardware
  systems.  It seems logical to break off hardware as a separate
  discussion topic so that only those who are interested need to
  scan (and pay for) the traffic.  The same may be true of other
  topics currently carried by AIList, but there seems to be a
  shortage of moderators.  Most of the lists that have spun off
  (e.g., NL-KR@Rochester, [email-masked]) seem
  to be doing just fine, and I'm sure the readers appreciate the
  increased ease of culling and saving the messages of interest
  to them.  -- KIL]

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Date: 4 Mar 87 10:54:19 GMT
From: [email-masked]  (D Nisbet)
Subject: Eliza, Doctor, Parry, Ractor, etc, ...

I have heard about the various "chatty" programs which have been written
to imitate Psychiatrists (sp?), Doctors, Scribe's, etc, but have never
had the opportunity to play (play?!) use any of these programs. This kind
of software interests me a lot and would like to know if any of them
(or similar type) are freely available.

There is a book, I believe, titled "The Policeman's Beard is Half-Constructed"
which chronicles the 'works' of one of these programs (I can't remember which).
Does anyone know of its availability/publisher/price, and if there are any
other recommended books in this kind of area.

Any info appreciated. I will summarise any e-mail to me if there is
any interest.

  [ .. I *know* this article is already in misc.misc. before anyone flames
   me for bad netiquette. I've had trouble trying to post to the more
   relevant ones. DJN ]

--

Dougie Nisbet

University of Edinburgh      | <UUCP>  ...seismo!mcvax!ukc!its63b!dougie
Medical Statistics Unit      | <JANET> [email-masked]
Medical School
Teviot Place
Edinburgh
Scotland

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Date: 6 Mar 87 00:20:25 GMT
From: [email-masked]  (Stuart M. Cracraft)
Subject: Re: Eliza, Doctor, Parry, Ractor, etc, ...

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (D Nisbet) writes:
>
>I have heard about the various "chatty" programs which have been written
>to imitate Psychiatrists (sp?), Doctors, Scribe's, etc, but have never
>had the opportunity to play (play?!) use any of these programs. This kind
>of software interests me a lot and would like to know if any of them
>(or similar type) are freely available.
>

Ractor is one of the funniest programs I've ever seen.
I ran it on a Macintosh over at the local software shop,
and it had me in stitches for almost an hour.

(The stiches were recently removed by GNU-EMACS's `doctor' mode.)

Stuart

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Date: 5 Mar 87 12:40:36 GMT
From: [email-masked]  (Dave Stoffel)
Subject: analysis of unknown data

    What systematic methods and techniques would you apply to the
    following problem?

    Determine the representation, organization, and content of a
    "file" containing up to 156MB.  There are no assumptions.  The
methods and techniques applied must be automated (if not fully
automatic) and applicable to an unlimited supply of "files".

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 17:18:42 GMT
From: [email-masked]  (M.BRILLIANT)
Subject: Re: analysis of unknown data

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Dave Stoffel) writes:
>
>     What systematic methods and techniques would you apply to the
>     following problem?
>
>     Determine the representation, organization, and content of a
>     "file" containing up to 156MB.  There are no assumptions.

What systematic or unsystematic methods and techniques would you apply
to the following (seemingly easier) problem?

Determine the machine language of a computer with a 64K address space,
8K of RAM, and 48K of ROM containing an operating system and BASIC.
There is user documentation but no system documentation.  The operating
system has undocumented capabilities for writing in RAM, reading any
byte, and starting execution at any byte in the address space.  Ignore
secondary storage.

M. B. Brilliant                                 Marty
AT&T-BL HO 3D-520       (201)-949-1858
Holmdel, NJ 07733       ihnp4!houdi!marty1

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 16:40:49 GMT
From: [email-masked]  (M.BRILLIANT)
Subject: Re: analysis of unknown data

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Dave Stoffel) writes:
>     What systematic methods and techniques would you apply to the
>     following problem?
>
>     Determine the representation, organization, and content of a
>     "file" containing up to 156MB.  There are no assumptions....

I thought that would be impossible.  Theoretically, I would think that
if there are no assumptions there can be no reasoning.  In fact, there
are always tacit assumptions that even the author isn't aware of.  If
I'm wrong, please post to the net, as I imagine there are others as
naive as I am.

M. B. Brilliant                                 Marty
AT&T-BL HO 3D-520       (201)-949-1858
Holmdel, NJ 07733       ihnp4!houdi!marty1

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 18:55:17 GMT
From: Robert Stanley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: AI in Network Protocols.

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:
>
>topic : EXPERT SYSTEMS OR AI IN NETWORKS AND PROTOCOLS
>
>       I am trying to find out if there has been any attempt at
>applying AI techniques, AI languages to the field of network protocols.
>
There seems to be more than one question being asked here, and some fairly
fundamental confusion about so-called AI languages.  It is perfectly
possible to create communications protocols of almost any kind using LISP
or PROLOG (or less well-known object-oriented languages such as NEON) provided
that there is a clean interface to the underlying system.  The InterLisp-D
world on the Xerox 1100 series machines is a good example.  However, this
has nothing to do with AI.

Is it possible to apply AI techniques in creating protocols?  Yes, of course,
but most of the work that has come to my attention appears to have been
tackling the problems of network configuration, diagnostics, and routing.  Why
would anyone want to to "use AI" to write a protocol?  This is a hard-science
engineering issue, and one that is pretty well nailed shut for existing
protocols.  The key to protocols has tended to be universal standardization, so
that many people can use them.  One area that it would be interesting to see
AI applied is the smart "automatic" conversion between protocols.

I suppose the last interptretation of the question is: could a new protocol be
created which is based on AI techniques?  Again, one supposes so, but such
things have a habit of being created only when there is a clearly apparent
need.  I have not currently got any communications problems (telecommunications
problems, anyway) that can't be solved by applying existing protocols, and I
find that 10megabit LAN and 1.27megabit GAN are sufficiently wide bandwidths
for all my current needs.

Perhaps the original posting could be rephrased or expanded slightly, to open a
possibly interesting topic for discussion.

Robert Stanley

--
Robert Stanley             decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!roberts
                    Voice: (613) 738-1440 (on EST) Tuesdays only
                                        don't ask-----'
Cognos Inc., 3755 Riverside Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, K1G 3N3  CANADA

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End of AIList Digest
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