Date: Tue, 3 Sep 85 14:38 EST To: irdis at vpi Subject: IRList Digest V3 #6 IRList Digest Tuesday, 3 Sep 1985 Volume 1 : Issue 6 Today's Topics: Research Interests - Integrating Linguistic Techniques with IR Discussion - What Distinguishes DB Search vs. Expert Systems? - (Reply) Source of Queries? Discussion - Bibliography for Network Group Discussions? - (Reply) Existing Bibliography, Problems - (Reply) Maintenance and Update Problems Politics - Responsibility for Material Presented Announcement - Hardware-based Search Engine Call for Papers - Knowledge Representation, Proc. IEEE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 August 1985, 16:06:40 GMT From: AFS at IRLEARN To: FOX at VPICS1 [Note - the above are BITNET addresses. - Ed] Dear Ed, Thanks for your letter - I'm receiving your communications loud and clear and I'm getting the IRList digest also. Thanks for adding me to the list. As for providing other addresses, we here in UCD have only recently become connected to BITNET so we're only finding our way around. You already have Keith van Rijsbergen, David Harper and Bruce Croft on your mailing list ... I'm working on integrating linguistic techniques (in particular, parsing of text) with information retrieval, both in filing and retrieval. My work is being done as part of an ESPRIT (European Strategic Programme for Research into Information Technology) Project (EEC backing) on Office Information Systems, which also involves Keith, Bruce and David, as well as some partners in Denmark. Our project has been running for two years (one of them a pilot study) and has two more years left, at which point I should be finishing my PhD. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 85 10:07 P From: Henry Nussbacher Subject: Expert System definition vs Database Systems [Copied from AIList Digest Volume 3 : Issue 110 - Ed] I have been reading over the definitions of what an expert system is and isn't and I have seen in many of the comments that an expert system needs to be able to learn as it continues. Somehow, I have always felt Expert Systems to be glorified database systems. A database system gains more information as you add data to it. Th common example of Expert Systems (in my opinion) is the DOCTOR program: 1) Does the patient have a fever? Y 2) Has the patient vomitted in the past 24 hours? Y 3) Are the pupils dilated? N 4) etc... The AI program asks questions and based on the answers, determines what future questions to ask. In the end it narrows it down and comes up with a diagnoses based on the results of the questions. But I know of many database packages where a question in the form of: FIND FEVER > 100 & VOMIT = YES & DILATED = NO DISPLAY ALL My question is: What distinguishes the database search and display interface from an AI Expert System? Hank ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 85 00:35:00 edt From: BostonU SysMgr Subject: Re: Expert System definition vs Database Systems [Copied from AIList V3 #112. - Ed] From: Henry Nussbacher ...Somehow, I have always felt Expert Systems to be glorified database systems.... 1) Does the patient have a fever? Y 2) Has the patient vomitted in the past 24 hours? Y 3) Are the pupils dilated? N 4) etc... But I know of many database packages where a question in the form of: FIND FEVER > 100 & VOMIT = YES & DILATED = NO DISPLAY ALL In the first place, differential diagnosis is both a good and a bad example. Bad because it is meant to provide a lot of structure that can be likened to a data-base query with boolean logic and good because it has been worked on a lot in AI and as you get into more details it starts to become more clear why the database approach isn't always powerful enough. Consider: In the first place, there are many, many diseases. A doctor doesn't attempt to know all of them. In fact, the questioning (in a doctor's mind) I believe starts with something more like: is this person in front of me about to drop dead? a lot of info has to be processed real fast and inaccurately (from a data base/strict machine point of view) to answer that and act on it. Ok, let's try it again: IF s/he has a fever AND s/he has been vomiting THEN (will s/he drop dead in a moment?) or FIND DISEASE WHERE FEVER & VOMIT & DEATH hmmm, doesn't work. Maybe that's all the patient is saying though. I guess we better find out if s/he's severely dehydrated, measure the fever, or maybe they just have a little food poisoning. Ok, try again: IF he has a fever AND he has been vomiting THEN he has malaria... wait a minute! there's no malaria around here...try again (darn, if s/he hadn't just fallen over I might have asked if s/he have been traveling in the tropics lately or eaten any jalisco cheese, now what do I do...) I think my point is, yes, it's kind of like a database query BUT WHO IS GENERATING THE QUESTIONS. I think your example weakens a lot once the first query is made, who decides what the second query is to be? The expert system of course. You are assuming some magic actor generating all these nice queries and inferences, get rid of that actor and try it again. -Barry Shein, Boston University [Let's have some comments on DB and expert systems, and IR! - Ed] ------------------------------ Date: Tue 13 Aug 85 09:28:58-PDT From: Mike Dante Subject: Master Bibliography [Copied from AIList Digest Volume 3: #110 - Ed.] I suspect that I am not the only one reading this BB who finds some of the submissions less than completely understandable due to lacunae in my own background. Hence a suggestion: Would it make sense to establish and maintain a bibliography (hopefully annotated), whose existence and address would be mentioned in the header of the AIList Digest? Then when someone like myself wanted to understand more, he or she could FTP a copy of the bibliography and with a little study, at least understand the terminology. [Note - for those who cannot directly access copies, a query handling process would be necessary. - Ed] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 85 12:46:07 pdt From: aurora!eugene@RIACS.ARPA (Eugene miya) Subject: Re: Master bibliography [Copied from AIList Digest Volume 3 : Issue 112 - Ed] Excellent suggestion. The net's biggest problem is a lack of memory. ;-) I am trying something like this right now for parallel and distributed computing. Mine is ftp-able, and has over 5000 entries. It also has some copyright restrictions because I used several preexisting bibliographies [i.e., stand on the shoulders of giants...]. There is only one bibliography in the field larger than mine, but it's hardcopy, hard to use, but it has many more European papers. Mine's dynamic, useable with text formatters, and updateable. Keys and annotations, too. I suspect an AI bibliography will have two major problems: 1) AI is a much bigger field. 2) AI has more hype literature associated with it. If it were possible to moderate the technical content of the papers, you will succeed nicely. I have a separate bibliography for the "top ten" required readings in software engineering. I plan to update it yearly with a call for suggestions. Books will be booted in and out (I hope). Other minor problems: some work was received in Scribe bibliographic format: I decided on refer: ran on smaller machines, Unix more widely available, and so on. I had to write crude Scribe->refer translators. Getting people to help add, correct, and delete work is surpising difficult: everybody wants loaves of bread, but few want to do the work. The initial start is the hardest of course. Try to build off of others work if they will let you. --eugene miya NASA Ames Research Center emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA ames!aurora!eugene on UUCP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 85 13:28:56 pdt From: aurora!eugene@RIACS.ARPA (Eugene miya) Subject: Additional comment about master bibliography [Copied from AIList V 3 #113. - Ed] Oh, I forgot one MAJOR point of maintenance work. I am just now receiving smaller bibiliographies on things like computer networks. There are many collisions with papers already in the existing file. The problem is subtle because of slight variations in annotation styles which bibliographic sorting programs cannot appropriately handle. Also, transferring interesting comments and annotations from one entry to another is also time consuming. Two smaller bibliographies have come from England, and differences in spelling are another subtle problem: Defense and Defence. --eugene miya NASA Ames Research Center {hplabs,hao,dual,ihnp4,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA ------------------------------ From: Ken Laws Date: Sat 17 Aug 85 08:34:38-PDT Subject: Export Control ... big file of mail on the issue of technology export control ... The gist is that the regulations cover everything under the sun, but that no one is likely to come down on your discussion list. Just be sure that your list members know they are presenting their material in an international forum so that the responsibility is theirs. [Please note! - Ed ] -- Ken ------------------------------ From: Lee Hollaar Date: Mon 19 Aug 85 19:22:39-MDT ... We have the latest prototype of the hardware-based search engine operating, and plan to take it to Washington DC next week to show it off to a number of government agencies. It is being offered for sale through a spin-off of the University of Utah. Since it's now a commercial product, albeit in limited production, I don't know how you would like to handle news of it for the IR net list. Lee [As long as people are not advertising, we are all interested in hearing about developments in research and industry. - Ed] ------------------------------ Date: 13 AUG 85 15:57-N From: ROSNER%CGEUGE51.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA Subject: Call for Papers - Knowledge Represention, Proc. IEEE [Copied from AIList V3 #112. - Ed] CALL FOR PAPERS Proceedings of the IEEE Special Issue on Knowledge Representation Guest Editors: M King, M Rosner, University of Geneva The special issue is scheduled for publication during the second half of 1986. You are invited to submit a 6-10 page extended abstract on any topic relevant to the current state of the art in Knowledge Representation. Deadlines: submission of abstracts: 30th September 1985 notification of acceptance: 30th December 1985 final copy: 15th February 1986 contact: ROSNER%cgeuge51@WISCVM.ARPA (bitnet) mcvax!cernvax!cui!rosner (usenet, eunet, uucp) M Rosner ISSCO, 54 route des Acacias, 1227 Geneva, Switzerland ------------------------------ END OF IRList Digest ********************